16 Sobering Things Every Atheist Should Know

You should hear this if you are an atheist

… Belief in God isn’t blindly based on acceptance of the Bible as truth, or simply because the argument makes sense, but because when we begin to truly look for him, we begin to find him everywhere. In nature, in science, in supernatural experience, and perhaps most compellingly of all in the transformed lives of the people who have already believed in him – Martin Saunders, Contributing Editor, Christian Today.

As a follower of Jesus Christ, I know that God exists. But I also know there are atheists everywhere around the world – people who do not believe in the existence of God.

Just like Jesus wants us to do, I owe it to such people in particular and to humanity in general, to tell them about God. Not just because of the earthly benefits but for the eternal significance as well.

That was why I earlier published To those who say there is no God. The post was an open letter to all those who believe that God doesn’t exist. The comments it generated gave rise to the When you encounter an atheist online for the first time series previously posted on this blog.

As you well know, I can’t force anyone to believe in God. But I can at least let them know some things that may help them make up their mind in the affirmative. After all, acknowledging Jesus Christ as one’s Lord and personal Saviour remains a decision everyone has to take by him/herself.

So if you are an atheist, here are 16 sobering truths I wish you to know.

1. God exists – whether you believe it or not.

I had to say that first because it is the main thrust of this discourse. This article is of no effect if God does not exist. What is the point of life if there was no God?

Sorry to disappoint you: the fact that you do not believe in God does not diminish Him one bit. He is an all-sufficient God. Even if you change your mind and decide to believe in God today, it still does not add to His value.

But you know what? It is in your best interest both in time and in eternity to acknowledge Him. I hope you will find the impetus to continue reading after hearing that!

2. To know God, check the Bible

The Bible is the manual of life God gave to man. It is the final authority on anything there is to know about God and His creation.

If in your search for God, you have not checked the Bible, then you have been looking in the wrong direction. And if you have checked it before, you have to check it again. This time, do it in faith.

God has revealed Himself to mankind through the Bible. The Bible has the correct answer to all the questions about life and the after-life. If your disbelief in God has come from reading other books, it is now time you read the Bible with an open heart and with faith.

3. God loves you, I thought you should know.

Contrary to what you might have heard about Him, God is a loving God. As the Bible puts it, “God is love.” God loves you even if you do not acknowledge Him yet.

You don’t believe in Him, He loves you. You hate Him, He still loves you.  Because of that love, He does not want you to perish in your ignorance of, or disbelief in, Him.

He would rather have you come to Him humbly in faith through His only Son Jesus Christ, whom He allowed to die in the hands of wicked people for your sin and those of mankind.

4. God is not angry with you.

Has anyone ever told you that God is angry with you? That will not be true! The fact that you don’t believe in God does not mean that He is angry with you. In fact, He loves you too much to be angry with you.

God should have been – and He has every right to be – angry with you for not believing in Him. But His Son Jesus Christ has paid the price for you once and for all. For now, you are covered by His abundant grace.

The only thing that can provoke God eventually is if you fail to acknowledge the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for you before you leave this earth. If that happens, there is nothing God can do for you again; His anger would then no longer be restrained on the other side of this life.

Anyone who fails to believe in God while alive will be eternally separated from Him after death.

5. Jesus Christ is the only Way to God.

That is an audacious claim, I know. But it is not outrageous.

It is true that there are many ways to arrive a given destination. But when it comes to going to God, Jesus Christ is the Only Way; there is no shortcut and there is no roundabout way.

There is no other way to God apart from through Jesus Christ.  That fact cannot be overemphasized.

Jesus Himself declared unequivocally: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” John 14:16.

6. You are not the first person to doubt the existence of God.

I guess you know that already! There have been people before you who did not believe in God and there will still be people after you who will not believe in Him.

For instance, Marilyn Adamson confessed in her expository article Does God exist?: 

I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly…

However, the fact that you are not alone in the disbelief in the existence of God should not give you any comfort. Being in a state where you do not believe in God is not the best place you can be.

What are you if you say there is no God?

7. The Bible has a word for anyone who doesn’t believe there is God.

You should hear that word as stated in Psalms chapter 14:1:

A fool says in his heart there is no God.

That is it. According to the Bible, anyone who says there is no God is a fool. Such persons may or may not be educated, lowly or highly placed in the society, if they do not acknowledge God, they are fools. That may sound harsh I know, but then it is the harsh truth.

So you can see that it is wisdom to acknowledge God. It is foolishness not to.

I know there are people who think they are wise so they think have no need of God. But for such people, the Bible says, “In professing to be wise, they became fools” (Romans 1:22).

No matter how you feel about it, there is no wisdom in saying there is no God. If I say there is no God, it means I am foolish.

The only good news after this is that this kind of foolishness can be cured. The cure is to turn to God in faith through Jesus Christ.

8. There have been people who turned from atheism to God.

Sad to say, some people have died in their atheism, thereby sentencing themselves to eternal damnation. But thankfully, there have also been people who moved from atheism to faith in the true God.

For instance, freelance writer and lecturer, Philip Vander Elst tells his own change story in the expository article  From Atheism to Christianity: a Personal Journey. He gives us a glimpse into who he was before he came to acknowledge God:

Growing up in a non-Christian family with intellectually gifted but unbelieving parents, I used to think that belief in God and the supernatural had been discredited by the advance of science, and was incompatible with liberty. Religious faith seemed to me to involve the blind worship of a cosmic dictator, and the abandonment of reason in favour of ‘revelation

Similarly, in Five atheists who lost faith in atheism Martin Saunders, a Contributing Editor for Christian Today, writes about some “former atheists who found that their belief in nothing ultimately led them nowhere.” These people were intellectuals who departed from their avowed atheism to robust faith in God. That can be your story too!

9. Your lifetime is your only opportunity for you to know God.

The nine months spent in your mother’s womb prepared you for the life on earth. Similarly, your life on earth prepares you to be birthed into eternity.

Therefore, your life on earth is your only opportunity for you to know God, personally. If you miss it, you miss out eternally.

I don’t want you to miss out. Hence, I am writing this post to you as an individual.

The point is, if you do not get to establish a personal relationship with God through his Son Jesus Christ while you are still alive, you will inevitably be faced with the stark reality of being forever separated from God. That’s not something to look forward to, I must say.

10. Whatever misgivings you have about God can be handled.

That’s a promise, trust me! God is big enough to handle any (mis)guided thought you might have about Him. But nothing can be sorted out without your cooperation.

As Saunders stated, “when we begin to truly look for [God], we begin to find him everywhere. In nature, in science, in supernatural experience, and perhaps most compellingly of all in the transformed lives of the people who have already believed in him.”

You were not born an atheist, just as I was not born a Christian. I became a believer in Jesus Christ and so can you.

At some point in your life (or is it over a period of time?), you came to believe there is no God. You have your reasons, rightly or wrongly, for the claim that there is no God. But He is such a gracious God that He would not force you to acknowledge Him.

Therefore, if you would make up your mind to seek Him in faith, you would find Him. This is a guarantee because God said through prophet Jeremiah that:

“… ye shall seek me, and find me [God], when ye shall search for me [God] with all your heart” Jeremiah 29:13

11. God has numerous children and He has room for you too.

The key is in your hands! God created everyone but not everyone is His ‘child’. I hope you didn’t find that confusing?

The children of God are those who believe in Him through Jesus Christ. You may say you do not believe in God. But it is that same God that you don’t believe in that created you.

Does God exist?

It is true He created you but He cannot force you to become His child. Becoming his child is something you would have to do out of your own volition, without any force from me or from anyone else.

To become a child of God, you have to be given the right. As the Bible says “But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to … But as many as received him, to them gave he the power to become sons of God” John 1:12

The good thing is that the right to become a child of God is yours for the asking… even right now!

12. If you die today, where would you spend eternity?

Would you not want to find an answer to that question before it becomes too late? That’s a question not only for you but for all humans. There are only two possible options – eternity with God or eternity without Him.

Fortunately, anyone who believes in God through His Son Jesus Christ has already settled that issue. For such people, there is nothing to fear; their place is in God.

You already know that the fact that you don’t believe in God does not preclude you from dying. And death is the gateway to eternity.  Once you die, you have lost all the chances of ever knowing God.

Your present life is the only chance you to make the decision about where to spend eternity – with God in Heaven or with satan in hell. There is no sitting on the fence between the two choices.

Failure to choose God is already an automatic choice for hellfire. Hope that doesn’t sound too harsh?

13. The question of sin cannot be cured except in Christ.

There is no substitute to Christ at all! Even you yourself know that you are not perfect; you are not without blemish. In order words, you are a sinner who needs the forgiveness of God.

I didn’t say that to condemn you, but rather as a kind of reality check. You have to know this (in case no one ever told you before now): just like all humans, you are a sinner because you were born that way.

Sin is the nature of all men. You cannot solve the problem of sin on your own; you need help – God’s help.

The only authentic remedy for sin is in the blood Jesus Christ. All it requires is a simple faith in His sacrificial death and resurrection. It is only in believing in God through Jesus that your sin nature and its eternal consequence can be permanently dealt with.

14. You are accountable to God, now or later.

This is inescapable! You may not believe in God but you should understand that you are still answerable to Him. Whether you chose to accept Him or not you will still be accountable to Him for your actions.

One day, you will stand before Him to explain how you lived your life here on Earth and what you did with the offer of grace by His son Jesus Christ. I thought you should know that too.

15. There is a future reality called Hellfire.

Many people don’t like to hear that word ‘hellfire’. But I care about you too much not to warn you about it!

It is the final destination reserved for everyone who rejects the salvation that Christ offers. The place was originally meant for satan and his angels. But sadly, anyone that rejects God has sided with satan and so will ultimately end up where satan himself will be confined to too, forever.

You don’t have to go there if you decide to accept Jesus Christ now that you are still alive, otherwise, hellfire will be an inescapable reality. This is not a threat; it is the truth I just tried to share in love.

16. Very far from God is not too far yet.

You might think that you have gone a long way in the journey of your (wrong) belief that God doesn’t exist. But I would say you are yet to reach the point of no return. God is ready to accept you as his son/daughter if you give Him the chance now.

Once you realise that you are on the wrong part, the honourable thing to do is to retrace your steps. Anyone who fails to acknowledge God is already on the wrong path.

If you don’t want to end up in the wrong destination, you should not continue on the journey in the wrong direction. The prodigal son found his back to his father, so can you!

Forget about the wrong things you might have been told about God. Dismantle your previous mindset and seek God yourself with all your heart and with faith.Give Jesus an invitation into your heart and I can assure you He will honour it.

Would you acknowledge God through His son, Jesus Christ now?

P.S: To you that believe in God through his Son Jesus Christ, if you have any sobering thing you would want an atheist to know that doesn’t fall into any of the ones listed above, do me a favour by commenting. You may be the voice that someone may hear to turn to God. Those that have contrary opinions are also welcome to comment.

©CopyRight | Victor Uyanwanne

207 thoughts on “16 Sobering Things Every Atheist Should Know

  1. John Arthur 29/09/2019 / 5:06 am

    Nowhere does the bible teach of a hellfire as eternal punishment. See the Tentmaker Ministries at https://tentmaker.org/

    Christians who believe in hell as a place of everlasting torment generally lack compassion and show far less compassion than non Christians do.

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    • VictorsCorner 29/09/2019 / 7:59 pm

      “It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven… ”

      “The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God…”
      Source: https://www.gotquestions.org/hell-real-eternal.html

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      • John Arthur 30/09/2019 / 4:01 am

        The link that you supplied was from a Fundamentalist website, so I am not surprised that you have been brainwashed to accept what it says.

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        • VictorsCorner 30/09/2019 / 10:50 pm

          Surprised or not, the facts were clearly spelt out in that post. You deny them at your own peril.

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  2. John Arthur 29/09/2019 / 5:19 am

    The doctrine of hell has caused more people to become atheists than any other Christian doctrine that is taught. The bible doesn’t teach hell. It teaches that Jesus is the Saviour of all human beings, especially those who believe (1 Tim.4:10).

    If Jesus IS the Saviour of all human beings, then no-one will go to any place called hell as you conceive of it. This hell doctrine is a doctrine of religious terrorism.

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    • VictorsCorner 29/09/2019 / 8:11 pm

      Don’t be deceived, if there is Heaven for those who believe in Jesus, there must also be hell fire for those who reject Him.

      Yes, Jesus is the Saviour of the world. But not everyone in the world has accepted or will ever accept His offer of salvation. To those people, hell fire is inescaple.

      This is afair warning, not religious terrorism, as you put it.

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      • John Arthur 30/09/2019 / 3:50 am

        Jesus is either the saviour of all or he is inly the saviour of some. I Tim.4:10 says that he is the saviour of all human beings. So are you saying that the pseudonymous author of 1 Timothy is wrong. If the bible is wrong here, as you seem to be saying, then maybe it’s wrong in many places.

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        • VictorsCorner 30/09/2019 / 10:48 pm

          Please refer to my earlier response on this.

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      • John Arthur 30/09/2019 / 3:56 am

        The doctrine of hellfire is a doctrine of religious terrorism. Jesus referred to Gehenna (hell) which was the rubbish tip located in the valley of Hinnon. He didn’t teach religious terrorism, like you do.

        The doctrine of never ending punishment for finite “sins” committed in finite time by finite persons makes God out to be unjust and a moral monster. God, if he exists, is a God of infinite compassion, healing-mercy and loving-kindness and would not do such a monstrous thing. He is just. His anger is but for a season, but his mercy endures forever. He is the saviour of all human beings. He is not a religious terrorist, as you make him out to be.

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        • VictorsCorner 30/09/2019 / 10:49 pm

          You are entitled to your own opinion. But it doesn’t mean it is right.
          Your claims are incorrect.

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          • John Arthur 02/10/2019 / 4:24 am

            But My claims are backed up by the bible , whereas your are not. Jesus IS the Saviour of all human beings, not some.

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            • VictorsCorner 02/10/2019 / 6:03 am

              You twisting the Bible to wuit your aim. Only those who accepts Jesus as Lord will be saved.

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              • John Arthur 04/10/2019 / 1:26 am

                All will accept Jesus as Lord by the power of the breath as he taught his disciples. Jesus, himself, was empowered by the breath. So, too, can you be.

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                • VictorsCorner 04/10/2019 / 8:16 pm

                  All will not accept Jesus, but one day they shall be ‘forced’ to confess Jesus as Lord. Until then, everyone still alive today have the opportunity to accept Jesus out of their own freewill, without being forced.And that includes you.

                  I am already empowered by the Holy Spirit. Jesus too was empowered by the Holy Spirit. not by breath as you put it.

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                  • John Arthur 02/12/2019 / 11:26 am

                    No-one will be ‘forced’ to confess Jesus as Lord, now nor ever. Some believe that Jesus lies dead someone on the Judean hills, so it is useless to confess anything about him. But some follow Jesus’ and Buddha’s method of breath meditation.

                    If there is no Holy Spirit, how can you be empowered by this Spirit? Speaking in gobbledegook or jibber jabber can’t empower anyone. Why not try breath meditation?

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                    • VictorsCorner 04/12/2019 / 6:02 pm

                      You can’t believe be forced to believe. You have to do it by your own freewill.

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                  • John Arthur 03/12/2019 / 12:20 am

                    Hi Victor,

                    You need to give up that barbaric book written by bloodthirsty, ignorant and very violent savages called the bible. No compassionate person could write that rubbish. It’s a horror story. You’d be better off taking deep breaths and following your internal guidance system. You would be liberated from the imprisonment the bible and its religious gurus bring.

                    Liked by 1 person

                    • VictorsCorner 04/12/2019 / 6:00 pm

                      I don’t even understand you. And I’m not sure you understand yourself either.

                      Something seem to be troubling you. Only God can give you a peaceful heart.

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                    • John Arthur 05/12/2019 / 3:21 am

                      You say that you don’t understand what I am talking about. It’s so simple that I am sure that you can understand it, if you put your mind to the task.

                      The thoughts that we continually reflect upon are what shape us as persons. You can meditate upon positive, uplifting, inspiring and encouraging thoughts of compassion, healing-mercy and loving-kindness as well as peace, well-being, healing, harmony and wholeness. This type of thinking will lift you up so that you are enabled and empowered to encourage, inspire and uplift others.

                      Then there are negative thoughts which do damage to our emotions, bring people into despair and repel others. What someone whose emotions are damaged needs is help of the right kind.

                      Breathing in slowly and out slowly helps to calm the nerves and provides increased ability to think positive thoughts. A loving-kindness meditation taught by Buddha and Jesus could also help you. Have a wonderful day!

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                    • VictorsCorner 11/12/2019 / 12:52 pm

                      Positive thoughts are good but they are not enough to save your sinful self. that’s why you need to place your faith in God through a personal relationship with His Son Jesus Christ. There is no other way.

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                  • John Arthur 06/12/2019 / 12:25 am

                    You are right when you say that no-one will be forced to confess Jesus as Lord but will believe of their own free will, Yet, up above, you say that unbelievers will be ‘forced’ to confess Jesus as Lord. Aren’t you contradicting yourself?

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                    • VictorsCorner 11/12/2019 / 12:59 pm

                      There is no contradiction here. May be I should throw more light into it:

                      I am just saying that it better for you to accept Jesus now before it is too late. If you confess Him as Lord now, you have His grace. But if you wait for Him to force you to accept Him, that will be His judgement.

                      His judgement is not now. But it will certainly come. Think of it this: as a good citizen, no body forces you to obey the laws of the land. It is in your best interest to do so, because when you disobey, you will be judged and possibly thrown into jail.

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  3. John Arthur 06/12/2019 / 12:38 am

    You say that atheists are going to burn in hell when they die, if they don’t repent of their so-called sins before they die. Where does the bible say that atheists are going to end up in hell?

    Your concept of hell seems to be everlasting, unspeakable torture of so-called “unrepentant sinners”. Of course, no loving person would torture anyone and certainly not burn them. Doesn’t the concept of God that you have make him out to be a moral monster, no better than that mythical figure called ‘the devil”?

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    • VictorsCorner 11/12/2019 / 1:23 pm

      The only reason anyone will end up in hell fire is if they reject the saving grace that God has offered mankind through Jesus Christ. And if they do end up in hell, they will have no other than themselves to blame.

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      • John Arthur 12/12/2019 / 10:39 am

        There is a real problem with your theology, Victor. Your “turn or burn” theology makes God out to be a moral monster. How can God be a God of compassion, healing-mercy and loving-kindness (which you claim he is) if he ends up burning people with unspeakable torture in a place called hell? Isn’t this a doctrine that is so evil that it is no wonder that this is one of the chief doctrines of the church that is producing atheists. some church people see through this evil doctrine, but you Pentecostals can’t see through it because you have been brainwashed by your Pentecostal masters.

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        • VictorsCorner 13/12/2019 / 8:09 pm

          If only you knew better, you would not be talking like this. Your words stand as testimony against you.

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          • John Arthur 14/12/2019 / 12:00 am

            I speak the truth, so why would my words stand as a testimony against me?

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            • VictorsCorner 15/12/2019 / 11:06 am

              You said ‘turn or burn’ but you refuse to turn to God. Would you blame anyone for the consequence of that?

              You know God is love but refuse to accept His love in your heart as forgiveness for your sins and the salvation of your soul. And you say the truth you know will not testify against you?

              Bottom line: you have no excuse for your Continued rejection of God.

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              • John Arthur 16/12/2019 / 4:38 am

                I’m not rejecting the God whose nature is others-centred, self-giving, community-forming and life-affirming compassion, healing-mercy and loving kindness. It is you, and your Pentecostal mates, who are rejecting him by your ‘turn or burn’ theology. ‘Turn or burn’ is NOT my theology, nor is it that of Jesus. God’s justice is restorative, not punitive. God is a God of peace, not a God of violence. Burning people with everlasting torture is not love but an indication of belief in a sadistic god.

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                • VictorsCorner 17/12/2019 / 7:01 am

                  You know nothing about the true God. If you did, you would know He is a God of love as well as a consuming fire.

                  You do not understand Jesus’ teachings either. If you did, you would know what Jesus “I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.” Luke 13:3.

                  To believe or not to believe is your choice, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

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                  • John Arthur 17/12/2019 / 11:06 am

                    Well, Buddha and Jesus knew about a “God” of peace and kindness, because they both practiced breath meditation. It is you who knows nothing of God because your god is very violent. the God of Jesus and of Buddha rejected violence. Violence is an abomination to him. Please repent of the violence you are supporting which comes from the brainwashing that your Pentecostal masters have soaked you in.

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                    • VictorsCorner 18/12/2019 / 7:01 am

                      I do not support violence, you know that. I’m just concerned that you are finding it difficult to make up your mind about following God. But something tells me you need, that’s why I’m still here responding to you.

                      I can’t tell you how to live your life, but nothing obliges me not to tell to give it to God, because in the end you will be accountable to Him. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

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                    • John Arthur 18/12/2019 / 10:57 am

                      Hi Victor,

                      Are you a Jesus-centred Pentecostal or a bible centred Pentecostal or a tongues-centred Pentecostal or a peace and justice Pentecostal? Which is it?

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                    • John Arthur 19/12/2019 / 11:35 pm

                      Hi Victor,

                      You might not personally support violence but the theology that you hold to has violent assumptions built into it. To burn anyone is an act of violence and you hold to a god, whom you claim, will burn people in hell forever with unspeakable torture,

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  4. John Arthur 06/12/2019 / 12:46 am

    Hi Victor,

    Your Pentecostal masters appear to have done a thorough job in brainwashing you in their biblical interpretation, theology, and theological ethics. They have brainwashed you to believe that God is not a God of peace, but a god of violence who must punish sin and sinners with unspeakable torture because they honestly could not believe the Pentecostal propaganda. The false concept of hell as unspeakable torture is one of Pentecostal’s chief propaganda weapons that they use to gain religious converts. It’s bad news, not good news!

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    • VictorsCorner 06/12/2019 / 5:59 pm

      God is a God of peace but it doesn’t mean He is not for justice. Hell fire is real, no matter how much you and your likes try to wish it away.

      The only way you can escape it is to give your life to Jesus Christ. I don’t want you to leave this world and find its too late for you to so. Now is your time.

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      • John Arthur 06/12/2019 / 11:55 pm

        You assume that God’s justice is violent and retributive that he must torture people to satisfy his blood lust. But if God is love and non-violent then his justice must be compatible with his love and peace. So isn’t God’s justice restorative justice? Hell is a fiction made up by the church when it turned to violence as a means of gaining control over people.

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      • John Arthur 08/12/2019 / 5:00 am

        Hi Victor,

        Pentecostals, Charismatics, and Fundamentalists are almost always Conservative Evangelicals who take the bible far too literally and refuse to recognize the myths in the bible. They refuse to proclaim the gospel of Jesus which is good news to the poor and liberates the captives. They proclaim bad news by twisting the good news of Jesus and turning it into news about an angry god whose modus operandi is violence and not peace, judgment and not love.

        The liberal evangelicals are the Christians who are proclaiming truly good news that God loves all and will have mercy upon all. He is a God of love and not an unspeakable torturer that you conservative evangelicals believe in. Your so-called gospel is supposed to be fire insurance, but no loving person would ever burn anyone. You need to repent of your completely erroneous views and stop doing damage to gullible persons who are scared into the church by your psychological terrorism.

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  5. John Arthur 21/12/2019 / 10:50 am

    Hi Victor,

    What’s missing from your theology is a vital piece of the puzzle: a theology of the breath. Without a theology of the breath you will miss what Jesus was all about and be found to be following Satan.

    The Greek text of the NT uses the word pneuma numerous times. Pneuma can be translated “breath” or spirit or Spirit. So when Jesus says that you must be “born of the breath” to enter the reign of God, he means that you need to breathe in slowly and breathe out slowly to experience the presence of peace and compassion. This is where you are failing, Victor. Your Pentecostal masters have brainwashed you with the theology of gobbledegook and jibber jabber claiming falsely that you have been empowered by the Holy Spirit.

    But the Holy Spirit (i.e. holy breathe) must first be actualized in your life. You can’t do this speaking in jibber jabber but need to breathe in slowly and breathe out slowly like Buddha and Jesus both taught their disciples. You should follow Jesus, like I do. He teaches a theology of compassion.

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    • VictorsCorner 23/12/2019 / 1:07 am

      I can see that you prefer confusion to simple understanding. That’s the reason you say some of the things you have said here. Sorry, I can’t help you any further.

      You keep repeating your meaningless theology of ‘breath’ as if it will change anything. If that’s your understanding, please live with it, okay?

      “Whoever believes in him [Jesus Christ] as Lord and Saviour] is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.” John 3:18

      I leave you to decide!

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      • John Arthur 23/12/2019 / 1:56 pm

        Forget about a theology of the breath. What you need is Creative Love Theism. This theology says that God is love and only love. all God’s attributes are re-interpreted in the light of the view that God is Love.

        Although I am an agnostic based on reason and science, I choose to believe that God is love. I don’t believe that God is a torturer, not do I believe that he ever commanded the slaughter of little children and babies, even though the bible says that he did. The bible is sometimes mistaken. It has errors in it. Only Jesus reveals God to us as a God of love. Buddha is a forerunner of Jesus, though not the only forerunner. John the Baptist is another forerunner.

        Peace and well being to you!

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    • John Arthur 05/03/2020 / 1:35 pm

      Victor, Rape is one of the most evil things that men can do to women, yet your holy book approves of it in some of its passages. Hence it cannot be any Word of God and certainly not a book that any humane person should follow.

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      • VictorsCorner 05/03/2020 / 5:39 pm

        The Bible doesn’t approve rape. Your lack of understanding of it is not helping you at all.

        If anyone commits rape today, Christian or not, he or she will be called to justice. So don’t get it twisted.

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        • John Arthur 06/03/2020 / 5:15 am

          Deut.22:28-29 says this: “If a man meets a virgin who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are caught in the act, the man who lay with her shall give fifty shekels of silver to the young woman’s father, and she shall become his wife. Because he violated her he shall not be permitted to divorce her as long as he lives.”

          This is in the bible. the word “seize” implies coercion and is rape. this poor woman is forced to marry her rapist for the whole of the rapist’s life. What barbaric idiot wrote this in your so-called holy book?

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          • VictorsCorner 06/03/2020 / 8:36 am

            If you knew God, you would not be accusing Him of supporting rape.

            Your lack of understanding of the Bible is so clear. I wish I could help you see the light, because obviously satan has blinded you with his darkness.

            Come to Jesus now. Only Him can deliver you from the bondage of satan.

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        • John Arthur 06/03/2020 / 5:20 am

          The fact that if someone committed rape today will, if found guilty, suffer the full penalty of the law. This is right and just, but this does not make the bible the Word of God. The bible was written somewhere between about 900 BCE and CE 100. So it is irrelevant what happens today. It’s your barbaric book that you are trying to justify and you ignored the link that I gave you about rape in the bible. If the bible was the Word of God, it would not support rape and would condemn all cases of it.

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          • John Arthur 06/03/2020 / 5:22 am

            Victor, it is you who is prejudiced in favour of the bible and it is you who refuse to read what it says.

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            • VictorsCorner 06/03/2020 / 8:27 am

              The truth in the Bible is what you will be judged by. That much I know.

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          • VictorsCorner 06/03/2020 / 8:32 am

            The Bible does not support rape. What you referenced were historical accounts of events of those days.

            Shift your focus from rape to love. Jesus loves you and gave his life for you. Love your neighbor as yourself. That much is the Bible too. Of course you will chose what fuels your prejudices.

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            • John Arthur 06/03/2020 / 10:45 am

              “What you referenced were historical accounts of events of those days.”

              If the bible was the Word of God, wouldn’t the bible condemn the “historical events of those days” (rape), but there is no such condemnation and sometimes it supports them. Hence, the bible could not be the Word of God.

              It is true that Jesus does not support rape. He was generally more civilized than the ancient barbarians who wrote big swathes of the bible. But, even he made mistakes and his mistakes are recorded in the NT. So even Jesus is not the Word of God.

              If there is any word from God, it is compassion, healing-mercy and loving kindness. It rejects your “turn or burn” theology and your Fundamentalist/Pentecostal view of the bible. These are incompatible with a God of love.

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              • VictorsCorner 06/03/2020 / 2:49 pm

                You are mistaken to think that God supports rape. His law against sexual sin is very clear in the Bible. ” Thou shall not commit adultery,” I know you have heard about that. And fornication too, God forbids that too.

                To be clear about it, God is not pleased with any form of sexual activities outside marriage. Any other thing outside that is devils idea.

                I do not wish you to ‘burn’. Just accept the love of God in Jesus Christ and be free. Atheism is a dead end.

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                • John Arthur 06/03/2020 / 11:42 pm

                  Granted that the bible has commandments against adultery and fornication and therefore any kind of rape, it also has passages which either have God supporting rape or not condemning rape. This means that the bible does not speak with one voice on this topic and therefore it could not be the Word of God.

                  If you think I am wrong then please address the passages that I supplied from the evilbible.com website on rape in the bible. Not all of these were historical occurrences. The passage that I quoted from Deuteronomy is part of the law that God is alleged to have provided Israel but it barbarically requires a raped virgin who is not engaged but is raped to marry her rapist and live with him for the rest of her life. Please explain how you justify this by addressing the passage.

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                  • VictorsCorner 07/03/2020 / 8:41 am

                    I don’t know why you have continued to mix up things. On one hand you agreed that the Bible has laws against adultery and fornication. On another, you claim God supports rape and forces the raped to marry the rapist.

                    Let me help you a little. Rape is a crime, either now or in Biblical times. In fact, it carried the death penalty then: “But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die” (Deuteronomy 22:25, KJV).

                    Is that not clear enough? Paraphrased: The man that rapes a woman shall be put to death. You either accept that this is in the Bible and put your baseless argument to rest or you keep living in your world of lies.

                    The second scenario which you referred to is not actually a rape situation but that of consensual sex between an unmarried couple. “If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.”
                    Deuteronomy 22:28-29 KJV

                    In biblical times, premarital sex was a big sin. So if two unmarried people were caught engaging in sex, they would be made to get married to each other.

                    Was that talking about rape? No! Can you see now that you have been misguided?

                    I don’t which part of the world you live in, but I suppose you have heard of shotgun weddings before. That’s a similar practice.

                    “A shotgun wedding is a wedding that is arranged to avoid embarrassment due to premarital sex possibly leading to an unintended pregnancy, rather than out of the desire of the participants.”

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                    • John Arthur 08/03/2020 / 4:14 am

                      The passage from Deut.22:25-27 is about the rape of an engaged woman which in Israelite society was tantamount to adultery which was a capital offence. The second case is different. It is about the rape of a non-engaged virgin (Deut.22:28-29). The NRSV uses the word “seize” in both cases, so both cases involve coercion and hence rape. In the first case the man was put to death whereas in the second case the raped woman was forced to marry her rapist and to live with him as long as she lives.

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                    • VictorsCorner 08/03/2020 / 5:54 pm

                      You are mixing things up. And doesn’t help matters that you are not accepting explanations.

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                    • John Arthur 09/03/2020 / 12:39 am

                      Even your KJV version of Deut.22:28-29 says “… lays hold on her” which implies “seizes her” and is a case of coercion which you choose to ignore and you read into the text wrongly that it is about consensual sex. It is you who is mixing things up, not me. Can’t your so-called Holy Spirit really show you what this passage means?

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                    • VictorsCorner 09/03/2020 / 5:18 am

                      Did you read the context? Seizing her in the city or in the field? Please go back to it if you missed it.

                      You know nothing about the Holy Spirit and you would never know, except you accept Jesus Christ into your life.

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    • VictorsCorner 05/03/2020 / 5:42 pm

      We have had worst sceptics than you, yet when they read the Bible without prejudices, they got to know the truth themselves.

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      • John Arthur 07/03/2020 / 12:06 am

        The primary reason that I have become an atheist with respect to the bible god is that I have actually read the bible, with the aid of top biblical scholarship and have come to the view that much of it was written by very violent, barbaric, bloodthirsty and ignorant savages who created god in their own likeness. Other passages in the bible are kind, compassionate and uplifting. The bible is a book where its god is both good and evil. The evil passages which show god to be a moral monster mean that the bible could not be the Word of God.

        It is you who reads the bible with blinkers on. You fail to actually see what is there written on its pages or you ignore reading these passages. Which is it, Victor?

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        • VictorsCorner 07/03/2020 / 7:15 am

          Becoming an atheist is your choice. Blame it neither on the Bible nor on any person.

          The Bible was Holy Spirit inspired, so when I read it, I depend on the Holy Spirit for understanding. That’s the difference between you and I.

          It is true the Bible gives a good account of both the good and the bad that happened in the past to God’s people, Israel. The same Bible says they were written for our examples.

          If you have not learnt from reading the Bible, that shows your understanding has been blocked. You need the Holy Spirit for enlightenment. But you have to start with accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

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          • John Arthur 08/03/2020 / 12:20 pm

            If the bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit, as you allege, then why are there over 40,000 different interpretations of the bible? Either the holy Spirit is doing a pretty poor job in getting committed Christians to understand the bible or he speaks with forked tongue, or there is NO Holy Spirit.

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            • VictorsCorner 08/03/2020 / 6:12 pm

              How much do you care? You neither know God nor understand the things of God. Stop pretending.

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              • John Arthur 09/03/2020 / 12:42 am

                I’m the one who cares about an accurate reading of the bible, but you are artificially trying to harmonize contradictory passages. You assume that the bible speaks with one voice on all topics whereas there are different points of view in it.

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                • John Arthur 09/03/2020 / 12:44 am

                  “one voice”, not “one vice”

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                • VictorsCorner 09/03/2020 / 5:14 am

                  You don’t care about the truth. All you do is peddle lies with the aim of discrediting the Bible. You have failed and will continue to fail. Please do something else with your time. I’m no longer obliged to respond to you here. Enough of being so petty.

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