16 Sobering Things Every Atheist Should Know

You should hear this if you are an atheist

… Belief in God isn’t blindly based on acceptance of the Bible as truth, or simply because the argument makes sense, but because when we begin to truly look for him, we begin to find him everywhere. In nature, in science, in supernatural experience, and perhaps most compellingly of all in the transformed lives of the people who have already believed in him – Martin Saunders, Contributing Editor, Christian Today.

As a follower of Jesus Christ, I know that God exists. But I also know there are atheists everywhere around the world – people who do not believe in the existence of God.

Just like Jesus wants us to do, I owe it to such people in particular and to humanity in general, to tell them about God. Not just because of the earthly benefits but for the eternal significance as well.

That was why I earlier published To those who say there is no God. The post was an open letter to all those who believe that God doesn’t exist. The comments it generated gave rise to the When you encounter an atheist online for the first time series previously posted on this blog.

As you well know, I can’t force anyone to believe in God. But I can at least let them know some things that may help them make up their mind in the affirmative. After all, acknowledging Jesus Christ as one’s Lord and personal Saviour remains a decision everyone has to take by him/herself.

So if you are an atheist, here are 16 sobering truths I wish you to know.

1. God exists – whether you believe it or not.

I had to say that first because it is the main thrust of this discourse. This article is of no effect if God does not exist. What is the point of life if there was no God?

Sorry to disappoint you: the fact that you do not believe in God does not diminish Him one bit. He is an all-sufficient God. Even if you change your mind and decide to believe in God today, it still does not add to His value.

But you know what? It is in your best interest both in time and in eternity to acknowledge Him. I hope you will find the impetus to continue reading after hearing that!

2. To know God, check the Bible

The Bible is the manual of life God gave to man. It is the final authority on anything there is to know about God and His creation.

If in your search for God, you have not checked the Bible, then you have been looking in the wrong direction. And if you have checked it before, you have to check it again. This time, do it in faith.

God has revealed Himself to mankind through the Bible. The Bible has the correct answer to all the questions about life and the after-life. If your disbelief in God has come from reading other books, it is now time you read the Bible with an open heart and with faith.

3. God loves you, I thought you should know.

Contrary to what you might have heard about Him, God is a loving God. As the Bible puts it, “God is love.” God loves you even if you do not acknowledge Him yet.

You don’t believe in Him, He loves you. You hate Him, He still loves you.  Because of that love, He does not want you to perish in your ignorance of, or disbelief in, Him.

He would rather have you come to Him humbly in faith through His only Son Jesus Christ, whom He allowed to die in the hands of wicked people for your sin and those of mankind.

4. God is not angry with you.

Has anyone ever told you that God is angry with you? That will not be true! The fact that you don’t believe in God does not mean that He is angry with you. In fact, He loves you too much to be angry with you.

God should have been – and He has every right to be – angry with you for not believing in Him. But His Son Jesus Christ has paid the price for you once and for all. For now, you are covered by His abundant grace.

The only thing that can provoke God eventually is if you fail to acknowledge the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for you before you leave this earth. If that happens, there is nothing God can do for you again; His anger would then no longer be restrained on the other side of this life.

Anyone who fails to believe in God while alive will be eternally separated from Him after death.

5. Jesus Christ is the only Way to God.

That is an audacious claim, I know. But it is not outrageous.

It is true that there are many ways to arrive a given destination. But when it comes to going to God, Jesus Christ is the Only Way; there is no shortcut and there is no roundabout way.

There is no other way to God apart from through Jesus Christ.  That fact cannot be overemphasized.

Jesus Himself declared unequivocally: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” John 14:16.

6. You are not the first person to doubt the existence of God.

I guess you know that already! There have been people before you who did not believe in God and there will still be people after you who will not believe in Him.

For instance, Marilyn Adamson confessed in her expository article Does God exist?: 

I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly…

However, the fact that you are not alone in the disbelief in the existence of God should not give you any comfort. Being in a state where you do not believe in God is not the best place you can be.

What are you if you say there is no God?

7. The Bible has a word for anyone who doesn’t believe there is God.

You should hear that word as stated in Psalms chapter 14:1:

A fool says in his heart there is no God.

That is it. According to the Bible, anyone who says there is no God is a fool. Such persons may or may not be educated, lowly or highly placed in the society, if they do not acknowledge God, they are fools. That may sound harsh I know, but then it is the harsh truth.

So you can see that it is wisdom to acknowledge God. It is foolishness not to.

I know there are people who think they are wise so they think have no need of God. But for such people, the Bible says, “In professing to be wise, they became fools” (Romans 1:22).

No matter how you feel about it, there is no wisdom in saying there is no God. If I say there is no God, it means I am foolish.

The only good news after this is that this kind of foolishness can be cured. The cure is to turn to God in faith through Jesus Christ.

8. There have been people who turned from atheism to God.

Sad to say, some people have died in their atheism, thereby sentencing themselves to eternal damnation. But thankfully, there have also been people who moved from atheism to faith in the true God.

For instance, freelance writer and lecturer, Philip Vander Elst tells his own change story in the expository article  From Atheism to Christianity: a Personal Journey. He gives us a glimpse into who he was before he came to acknowledge God:

Growing up in a non-Christian family with intellectually gifted but unbelieving parents, I used to think that belief in God and the supernatural had been discredited by the advance of science, and was incompatible with liberty. Religious faith seemed to me to involve the blind worship of a cosmic dictator, and the abandonment of reason in favour of ‘revelation

Similarly, in Five atheists who lost faith in atheism Martin Saunders, a Contributing Editor for Christian Today, writes about some “former atheists who found that their belief in nothing ultimately led them nowhere.” These people were intellectuals who departed from their avowed atheism to robust faith in God. That can be your story too!

9. Your lifetime is your only opportunity for you to know God.

The nine months spent in your mother’s womb prepared you for the life on earth. Similarly, your life on earth prepares you to be birthed into eternity.

Therefore, your life on earth is your only opportunity for you to know God, personally. If you miss it, you miss out eternally.

I don’t want you to miss out. Hence, I am writing this post to you as an individual.

The point is, if you do not get to establish a personal relationship with God through his Son Jesus Christ while you are still alive, you will inevitably be faced with the stark reality of being forever separated from God. That’s not something to look forward to, I must say.

10. Whatever misgivings you have about God can be handled.

That’s a promise, trust me! God is big enough to handle any (mis)guided thought you might have about Him. But nothing can be sorted out without your cooperation.

As Saunders stated, “when we begin to truly look for [God], we begin to find him everywhere. In nature, in science, in supernatural experience, and perhaps most compellingly of all in the transformed lives of the people who have already believed in him.”

You were not born an atheist, just as I was not born a Christian. I became a believer in Jesus Christ and so can you.

At some point in your life (or is it over a period of time?), you came to believe there is no God. You have your reasons, rightly or wrongly, for the claim that there is no God. But He is such a gracious God that He would not force you to acknowledge Him.

Therefore, if you would make up your mind to seek Him in faith, you would find Him. This is a guarantee because God said through prophet Jeremiah that:

“… ye shall seek me, and find me [God], when ye shall search for me [God] with all your heart” Jeremiah 29:13

11. God has numerous children and He has room for you too.

The key is in your hands! God created everyone but not everyone is His ‘child’. I hope you didn’t find that confusing?

The children of God are those who believe in Him through Jesus Christ. You may say you do not believe in God. But it is that same God that you don’t believe in that created you.

Does God exist?

It is true He created you but He cannot force you to become His child. Becoming his child is something you would have to do out of your own volition, without any force from me or from anyone else.

To become a child of God, you have to be given the right. As the Bible says “But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to … But as many as received him, to them gave he the power to become sons of God” John 1:12

The good thing is that the right to become a child of God is yours for the asking… even right now!

12. If you die today, where would you spend eternity?

Would you not want to find an answer to that question before it becomes too late? That’s a question not only for you but for all humans. There are only two possible options – eternity with God or eternity without Him.

Fortunately, anyone who believes in God through His Son Jesus Christ has already settled that issue. For such people, there is nothing to fear; their place is in God.

You already know that the fact that you don’t believe in God does not preclude you from dying. And death is the gateway to eternity.  Once you die, you have lost all the chances of ever knowing God.

Your present life is the only chance you to make the decision about where to spend eternity – with God in Heaven or with satan in hell. There is no sitting on the fence between the two choices.

Failure to choose God is already an automatic choice for hellfire. Hope that doesn’t sound too harsh?

13. The question of sin cannot be cured except in Christ.

There is no substitute to Christ at all! Even you yourself know that you are not perfect; you are not without blemish. In order words, you are a sinner who needs the forgiveness of God.

I didn’t say that to condemn you, but rather as a kind of reality check. You have to know this (in case no one ever told you before now): just like all humans, you are a sinner because you were born that way.

Sin is the nature of all men. You cannot solve the problem of sin on your own; you need help – God’s help.

The only authentic remedy for sin is in the blood Jesus Christ. All it requires is a simple faith in His sacrificial death and resurrection. It is only in believing in God through Jesus that your sin nature and its eternal consequence can be permanently dealt with.

14. You are accountable to God, now or later.

This is inescapable! You may not believe in God but you should understand that you are still answerable to Him. Whether you chose to accept Him or not you will still be accountable to Him for your actions.

One day, you will stand before Him to explain how you lived your life here on Earth and what you did with the offer of grace by His son Jesus Christ. I thought you should know that too.

15. There is a future reality called Hellfire.

Many people don’t like to hear that word ‘hellfire’. But I care about you too much not to warn you about it!

It is the final destination reserved for everyone who rejects the salvation that Christ offers. The place was originally meant for satan and his angels. But sadly, anyone that rejects God has sided with satan and so will ultimately end up where satan himself will be confined to too, forever.

You don’t have to go there if you decide to accept Jesus Christ now that you are still alive, otherwise, hellfire will be an inescapable reality. This is not a threat; it is the truth I just tried to share in love.

16. Very far from God is not too far yet.

You might think that you have gone a long way in the journey of your (wrong) belief that God doesn’t exist. But I would say you are yet to reach the point of no return. God is ready to accept you as his son/daughter if you give Him the chance now.

Once you realise that you are on the wrong part, the honourable thing to do is to retrace your steps. Anyone who fails to acknowledge God is already on the wrong path.

If you don’t want to end up in the wrong destination, you should not continue on the journey in the wrong direction. The prodigal son found his back to his father, so can you!

Forget about the wrong things you might have been told about God. Dismantle your previous mindset and seek God yourself with all your heart and with faith.Give Jesus an invitation into your heart and I can assure you He will honour it.

Would you acknowledge God through His son, Jesus Christ now?

 

P.S: To you that believe in God through his Son Jesus Christ, if you have any sobering thing you would want an atheist to know that doesn’t fall into any of the ones listed above, do me a favour by commenting. You may be the voice that someone may hear to turn to God. Those that have contrary opinions are also welcome to comment.

 

©CopyRight | Victor Uyanwanne

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137 thoughts on “16 Sobering Things Every Atheist Should Know

  1. Gretl Feeson June 29, 2016 / 5:16 pm

    Hi there.

    This is just my opinion but what a terrible and hurtful post.

    I mean what happens to the less fortunate in life who have to deal with the ‘devils temptations’ on a day to day basis compared to the person who is wealthy and rarely troubled in practical terms. I mean a young person living in an impoverished third world country cannot be judged the same as a middle class londoner and if thats the case i disagree strongly.

    I mean if I was a small child and a group of people burst into my home and killed my brother, raped my mother and sister and burned my village and turned me into a child soldier would I be judged the same throughout my life as someone who works as shop assistant in a grocery store in London. How does that work? Surely there’s going to be some issues there regarding level playing field.

    Not to get all judgemental or anything but God doesnt even seem like that nice a thing to be honest. He seems like a mystical dictator representing thug life and using life as a playground. I demand I go to ‘hell’ consider it my protest. I mean c’mon, god seriously needs to get his house in order.

    Would you say anything about god is dubious or questionable? I personally hate how it plays on fears we all might have and frankly i just dont have tme for it. If you don’t believe in god, are you able to love? God is love, what even is that? I mean These are the kind of statements you hear during a weekend spent taking hallucinagens.

    I feel we all have a god of sorts inside us that is our morality, standards, aspiration etc… A life long developing mentallity.

    How can anyone know god exists? I accept you can believe of course but this post is something else.

    I don’t really believe in anything, I guess there could be a higher power of sorts out there, maybe not. Who actually knows?

    Have a great day:)

    Like

    • VictorsCorner June 30, 2016 / 7:48 am

      Hi Gretl, thanks for stopping by and commenting. I appreciate that you had to share your ‘opinion’ as you called it. But I feel that probably a few things weren’t clear to you.

      Of course there is a ‘Higher power’ as you chose to call Him. But we know Him as God, the creator of Heaven and Earth. Whether you believe in Him or not doesn’t take away anything from His existence, because He is all sufficient by Himself. But it is in your best interest to believe in Him.

      In any case, you seem not to know anything about Him as you painted Him a wicked ‘man’ which He is not. I will like to introduce Him to you as a loving Father who loves you so much He made a provision for the redemption of your soul. Or haven’t you ever wondered about what you would do about your sins?

      Of course anyone can know that God exists – including you. Because anyone who seeks God with all His heart will find Him. Many people around the world have found Him and so can you!

      What He wants from you now is to have a personal relationship with Him through His son Jesus Christ. Feel free to let me know if you want to know how this works.

      In response to the issue on judgement you raised, I will tell you one thing: God will not judge anyone based on whether you lived (as you put it) in London or in some third world country, or any other part of the world for that matter. His judgement will be based on the simple but vital question “Did you accept or reject the grace of salvation which I (God) offered to the world through Jesus Christ?.”

      It will be an individual thing and everyone will answer for himself; you will answer the same question too. And your life time is your only opportunity to decide on that.
      You have a nice day too!

      Liked by 1 person

      • Gretl Feeson June 30, 2016 / 11:50 am

        I see but surely ones decisions will be greatly influenced by what has happened in ones life. Like I am going to find it a lot more difficult to accept salvation if one has been tested in far more hurtful ways and a tougher environment than say another. 🙂

        Thanks for the reply.

        Liked by 1 person

        • VictorsCorner June 30, 2016 / 7:13 pm

          Gretl, I agree with you that one’s experiences in life may affect his decisions. That’s understandable.

          But having experienced a hard life doesn’t mean one cannot accept salvation. In fact, there are several people whom it was their suffering/hardship that led them to accept salvation. When they found that they reached their end, they decided to seek God and got help.

          Jesus Christ actually made a special invitation to everyone experiencing burdens in life. He promised them rest they can’t find anywhere else (Matthew 11:28).

          But one should not actually wait until he reaches a dead end before coming to God. In any case, whether one has a good/easy or a hard life on earth now, everyone needs God. No exceptions.

          Liked by 1 person

  2. Gretl Feeson June 30, 2016 / 2:36 pm

    Also someone born closer to the time the events of christ etc… took place are going to have a much easier time having faith than those born thousands of years later. It seems like such an uneven playing field.

    In an ideal world it would be great to be able to believe in a just fair god but if god said such and such is wrong and that such and such is right would that be the way no questions asked because it is the will of god?

    I mean what about womens role in the society (whats that all about!), the LGBT community who just want to be happy or dietry stuff. In terms of how out of touch God is with the world, it amazes me when the bible I think says that if you lust after a women you see on television you have commited adultry, seriously? What do you think about these?

    If anything god really lacks foresight as the world has developed to the extent that it is nearly impossible to adhere to his laws.

    To me he is a dictator with some proper disturbing views that maybe was a sign of the times but still.

    For example how would you interpet the following?

    Numbers 31:17-18

    “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves”.

    Thanks 🙂

    Like

    • VictorsCorner July 1, 2016 / 7:39 am

      Gretl, I appreciate your time here. So I will try to answer your questions to the best of my knowledge. (Pardon the lengthy words please):

      1. I understand your assumption that people that lived around Jesus Christ’s time would find it easier to believe in Him than the people after that time. But that’s not exactly what Biblical records and history tell us. There were people who rejected Jesus then as there are people who are rejecting Him in our day now. One thing is sure though: there are more followers of Jesus Christ now in the world presently than there have ever been at any time in history. The Gospel of Christ is what people need to hear to believe in Jesus Christ, not whether or not they lived in Jesus time.

      2. God is a God of justice. But He didn’t say we should not ask questions, as you suggested. In fact in Isaiah 41:21, God Himself challenges us with this: “Present your case,” says the LORD. “Set forth your arguments,” says Jacob’s King. In another place He says to us “Come now, let us reason together…” Isaiah 1:18. So if we have questions, feel free to ask. The only difference is whether or not one asks genuinely.

      3. Of course God has roles for women in the society, no doubt about that. But it may not be in the way some people have understood it to be.

      4. Everyone (not just the LGBT community you mentioned) has right to seek happiness and God approves that too. In fact Jesus says He wants our joy to be full. But it is in knowing God that there is real joy and happiness.

      5. Gretl, God is not out of touch with the world as you suggested. It is even more appropriate to say that it is the people of the world that are losing touch of God. All men, including you, need to get know God better.

      6. You sounded funny with your comment on ’lust’. Be reminded that the dictionary defines lust as “strong sexual desire.” Is it appropriate to have strong sexual desire for any woman you see on TV, (as you put it)? I will let you know that God doesn’t want people having strong sexual desires for someone OTHER THAN THEIR SPOUSE. I hope that’s clear enough?

      7. You can’t keep all the laws on your own; no one can. But you can accept Jesus and He will give you the grace to please Him.

      8. God is not a dictator as you believe. The story of killings you referred to in Numbers, was God’s judgment on the Midianites for their ‘sins’ AT THAT TIME. But you see, by the grace that Jesus Christ has brought to the world, God is not PRESENTLY judging people that way. We are in a time of GRACE now. AS THE Bible says, “God is patient towards us all, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” And NOW IS THE DAY OF SALVATION!

      Thanks for your time.

      Liked by 1 person

  3. VictorsCorner November 17, 2016 / 12:12 am

    Alberto, you are right here: the relationship I present transcends what you can feel, touch, smell…as you said. It is a relationship of who you believe… Faith.
    Your senses are limited. They can’t know or understand everything, not to talk of finding God.

    Like

  4. Arkenaten September 17, 2017 / 4:04 pm

    Hi, Victor.

    Interesting post. Exactly what about the 16 things you have listed did you truly think would be sobering for a person who does not believe in the veracity of any gods, let alone the Judeo -Christian god found in the bible?

    Like

    • VictorsCorner September 17, 2017 / 4:38 pm

      I believe the post sufficiently addressed this question you raised. Please read it again if you missed the points. Thank you for reading and commenting.

      Like

      • Arkenaten September 17, 2017 / 6:33 pm

        I read some of it again and all of the comments but found nothing I may have missed that would cause me pause for more thought or anything sobering.
        Allallt addressed much of how I also felt about the post.
        But I would like you to address the specific point I raised regarding this being ”sobering” for atheists.
        Could you elaborate a little please?

        Like

        • VictorsCorner September 18, 2017 / 8:11 am

          Thank you for reading again. But if no part of it made you feel sober in any way (which is surprising), after reading them thoughtful, no problem, feel free to move on. That doesn’t change anything for me.

          Like

        • Arkenaten September 18, 2017 / 1:07 pm

          But the post appeared to be directed at atheists, did it not?
          Do you have verifiable evidence to back your claims, especially those pertaining to the Christian doctrine of Hell?

          Like

        • VictorsCorner September 18, 2017 / 6:58 pm

          Of course you are right about the target audience of the post. Are you confirming that you are an avowed atheist?

          You don’t sound like you have any faith in the Bible as the word of God, so would you believe if I told you that the evidence for the claim of the “doctrine of hell” is as contained in the Bible?

          Like

        • Arkenaten September 18, 2017 / 7:01 pm

          No I would not believe as I know the origin of the doctrine of hell as preached by the church.
          You obviously do not know your bible very well if you think it is biblical in origin.

          Like

        • VictorsCorner September 18, 2017 / 7:19 pm

          You choose what to believe in and you don’t want someone else to have the same right? So convenient!

          Of course I know my Bible well enough to know that Paul’s Epistles were divinely inspired, unlike you who wants me to believe other wise.

          I know my Bible well enough to know that Jesus loves you enough to die for you and is now calling you unto Himself to save your soul.

          I know my Bible well enough to know that anyone who rejects Jesus while on earth cannot escape the danger of the lake of hell.

          I know my Bible well enough to know that spiritual things of God do not make sense to canaly minded people….

          Like

        • Arkenaten September 18, 2017 / 7:27 pm

          Then if you know your bible well enough please direct me the book chapter and verse that confirms you assertion about Hell.

          Like

        • VictorsCorner September 18, 2017 / 8:03 pm

          Thank for you asking. But before I answer you, let me ask you the same question I asked some atheists who commented on the post before you: I talked about the love of God in the same post that mentioned the reality of hellfire. But how come you are more interested in hellfire than in the love of God that was mentioned in the same breath? Would you mind giving an honest answer?

          Now I will answer your question on Biblical references to hell or hellfire. The concept was vividly described in related words in many passages of the scriptures. Please consider the following: “Jesus taught on hell, and He did so to warn people not to go there. Hell is depicted in Scripture as a very nasty place from which there is no escape. The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).”

          If you have the time, you may read the full article via this link: https://www.gotquestions.org/hellfire-preaching.html

          Like

        • Arkenaten September 18, 2017 / 8:16 pm

          Jesus talked about Gehenna.

          So are you a YEC, yes or no?

          Like

        • VictorsCorner September 18, 2017 / 9:48 pm

          Of course you would say that. But I don’t have problems with that. But the concept of eternal damnation extends far more than that.

          Did you even read all the Bible references you asked for? If you did, you would see the far implications of hell.

          Like

        • Arkenaten September 18, 2017 / 9:57 pm

          New thread at the bottom.

          Like

  5. Arkenaten September 18, 2017 / 9:57 pm

    But the concept of eternal damnation extends far more than that.

    Not from the supposed mouth of the character Jesus the Nazarene.

    I know all the terms containing the bible , thank you.
    And the fact is Jesus never preached the Christian doctrine of hell. Never.
    It is simply false to assert he did.
    Here is an excellent text.
    I suggest you read it, educate yourself then come back and we can chat some more.

    Like

    • VictorsCorner September 18, 2017 / 10:21 pm

      You failed to answer my earlier question on why you are so interested in the issue of hell. I can hardly believe that it is not getting at you.

      Like

      • Arkenaten September 18, 2017 / 10:27 pm

        Sorry, I missed it.
        The notion of reward and punishment are cornerstones of the Christian religion.
        And an eternal Hell must have seemed like a good idea at the time to keep the masses in check.
        And of course, many sects of Christianity preach a very literal version of hell.
        There is even a rather revolting children’s book called The Cage, all about the eternal torture and damnation of Hell in wonderful graphic color and detail as well.

        I take an interest in this topic, first, because it is a lie to state that it is in the bible and also because it is taught as fact and indoctrinated into children. This, of course, is nothing but child abuse.

        Like

        • VictorsCorner September 18, 2017 / 10:34 pm

          If you didn’t see the concept of hell as clearly stated in the Bible references you read, it means you have chosen to ignore it. But in any case, your doubt doesn’t overturn its reality. Suffice to say at this time that whoever doubts the reality of hell has fallen victim to the lies of the devil. Unfortunately that does not preclude the attendant consequence.

          Like

        • Arkenaten September 18, 2017 / 10:37 pm

          . The Jews did not believe in the Christians version of hell and thus did not teach it.
          Jesus was a Jew.
          Ergo, he did not beleive or teach the Christian version of hell.
          You are wrong.

          Like

        • VictorsCorner September 18, 2017 / 10:47 pm

          The Jews do not believe that Jesus the Messiah ever came to the earth. For all I care, you might even be a Jew and you don’t believe in Him, so what?

          Unfortunately, what the Jews lost, the world gained. John took account of this when he wrote (John 1):
          11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
          12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name.

          I wonder what made you feel qualified to know who is wrong or right about hell.

          Like

        • Arkenaten September 18, 2017 / 10:54 pm

          What the Jews believe about the character Jesus the Nazarene is neither here nor there regarding the Christian doctrine of Hell, and you slightly condescending anti- semitic tone is not appreciated.

          I reiterate, Jesus was a Jew and did not teach the doctrine of Hell.
          I also provided you with a comprehensive link refuting your claims.

          I wonder what made you feel qualified to know who is wrong or right about hell.

          The evidence, as a matter of fact, most of which I leaned from those Christians who do not believe in hell either.
          I follow one as a matter of fact. He is a fully ordained pastor in the United States.

          I think the word of a Christian preacher seems as good a qualification as any.

          Like

        • VictorsCorner September 18, 2017 / 11:06 pm

          On the contrary, I respect Jews a lot. They are God’s chosen people and I recognise that. I was only responding to your claims about Jesus not believing in hell. That’s not a sufficient basis to accuse me of anti-Semitism, which you clearly know I’m not guilty of.

          What I will tell you is that anyone who doesn’t believe in hell has not read the Bible. And anyone who has read the Bible and does not believe in hell has clearly not understood the Bible or undertood it but chose to believe otherwise.

          Like

        • Arkenaten September 18, 2017 / 11:08 pm

          I have read the bible … all of it. And still read bits of it from time to time.
          it’s an awful book.
          And your interpretation of the word Sheol, Hades and Gehenna are all wrong.

          Like

        • VictorsCorner September 18, 2017 / 11:10 pm

          Unfortunately, you must belong to one of the categories described earlier.

          Like

        • Arkenaten September 18, 2017 / 11:14 pm

          So are you saying that all Christians who do not believe in Hell as you understand it are not proper Christians?
          I just need you to be perfectly clear on this point.

          And you might want to increase the number of comments per thread to avoid this squashing?

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        • VictorsCorner September 20, 2017 / 7:54 am

          I’m saying that any Christian (by that I mean any true follower of Jesus Christ, who believes that there is a Heaven for him or her for following Jesus Christ also knows that there is a place of eternal punishment for those who reject Jesus Christ. I believe that’s clear enough.

          Thanks for the suggestion. I will see to it.

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        • Arkenaten September 20, 2017 / 10:43 am

          Which is, of course, palpable nonsense if the biblical terms are correctly understood.
          As I have stated, Jesus never ever once even alluded to eternal damnation in anywhere called Hell.
          He was a Jew and Jews did not/do not believe in the Church Constructed narrative of Hell.
          Furthermore, this would make a mockery of your all-loving all-forgiving omnipotent deity and make him nothing but a monster.

          Your understanding is faulty. I recommend you study the terms, and the culture of the Jews regarding this issue, understand the language used and discuss this with a genuine bible scholar.

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        • VictorsCorner September 20, 2017 / 1:14 pm

          You have missed the point completely. And don’t blame me for that.
          Thank you for acknowledging God in your words, even though you have a distorted view about Him.

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        • Arkenaten September 20, 2017 / 1:36 pm

          What exactly is the point I have missed?

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        • VictorsCorner September 20, 2017 / 1:39 pm

          That there is a future reality of eternal punishment for those who reject Jesus.

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        • Arkenaten September 20, 2017 / 1:43 pm

          But I have explained more than enough times that this is a church constructed doctrine and does not exist in the bible.
          Let me be perfectly clear.
          The Jews do not believe in an eternal place of damnation.
          Jesus the Nazarene was a Jew.
          Ergo.
          He neither believed in an eternal place of damnation nor did he teach it.

          I hope you are finally clear on this point?

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        • VictorsCorner September 20, 2017 / 1:51 pm

          It is not my fault that you have chosen to ignore what is clearly written in the Bible as earlier communicated to you.

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        • Arkenaten September 20, 2017 / 1:53 pm

          I never ignore what is clearly written in the bible.
          However, you blatant ignorance in this regard is obvious.
          The Jews did not teach the doctrine of Hell as first portrayed by the Catholic Church.

          Jesus was a Jew.
          Ergo, he did not teach the Catholic Church version of eternal damnation.
          Thus you are wrong.

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        • VictorsCorner September 20, 2017 / 2:01 pm

          Stop talking about what Jews teach or don’t teach. For instance they don’t teach that Jesus is the Messiah, but that doesn’t change our believe in Jesus as the Messiah.
          Jesus talked about hell, when he told the story of the poor man and the rich man. As a Jew you can’t claim you don’t know the story, but you still say incorrectly that Jesus didn’t teach about hell.
          No one can talk about eternal reward for those who believe in Christ without an eternal punishment for those who do not.

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        • Arkenaten September 20, 2017 / 2:13 pm

          Where in that story is there any mention of eternal damnation?
          The hell you recognise is an invention of the Catholic Church and exaggerated by stories such as Dante’s inferno. Pure fantasy.

          I am sorry you do not like continual reference to Jesus being a Jew.
          But the truth is the truth.
          He was thoroughly Jewish, whether Jews consider him a Messiah or not has nothing to do with this fact.
          He was born of Jewish parents, circumcised, presented in the Temple and lived a thoroughly Jewish life, living among and interacting almost exclusively with Jews, reading and studying Torah, believing in Mosaic Law, and even teaching it.
          He was Jewish through and through.
          Jewish Law does not include eternal punishment and does not have anything like the silly Hell invented by the Catholic Church.

          This is the plain simple fact of the matter.

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        • VictorsCorner September 20, 2017 / 2:30 pm

          For the records, I do not dispute that Jesus was a Jew. But He was more than that — the son of God, the Saviour of the world…

          Any unbiased believer of the Bible knows that its content would be incomplete without reference to the concept of eternal punishment for God haters. Any one who ignores that fact does so at his or her own peril.

          I know it bothers you so much that eventually you can’t escape from being accountable to God. Hence the thought of eternal punishment scares you so much, whether you acknowledge it or not. Otherwise, why would you be bothered by your so-called invented, improbable reality of judgement of fire?

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        • Arkenaten September 20, 2017 / 3:02 pm

          What is a ”god hater”?
          I for one hate nothing and generally regard it as a wasted emotion. Why would you use such pejorative language?

          The concept of eternal punishment is part of certain Christian doctrine, but by no means all, and was first promulgated by the Catholic Church.
          I can introduce you to a Christian Pastor who does not believe in the doctrine of Hell as you imagine it. Would you like me to offer you a link to his blog?
          His name s Mel Wild.
          I would be very interested to read if there was some way you could justify your belief to him?

          I know it bothers you so much that eventually you can’t escape from being accountable to God.

          It does not bother me in the least and I never lose a wink of sleep over it any more than you will not likely lose a wink of sleep over any punishment you might be due for not believing in the Hindu Monkey god Hanuman.

          And I know you find it difficult to accept but nowhere in the bible does Jesus the Nazarene teach or preach eternal damnation or refer to the hell that the Church invented as part of its doctrine. Furthermore, you are unable to provide a single quoted line from Jesus the Nazarene to prove your assertion.
          I am sorry, but you are simply wrong.

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        • VictorsCorner September 20, 2017 / 4:18 pm

          Your propensity to always say someone is wrong is very obvious. But that’s hardly a bother because it doesn’t change anything for me.
          If you will continue to disagree that there is eternal punishment for those who reject the salvation that Jesus offers, let’s move on because you can’t force me to drop that belief which is clearly enunciated in the scriptures.

          You are free to hold on to your beliefs, whatever they are. But in the end, we see all accountable to God – individually. Thanks for your time.

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        • Arkenaten September 20, 2017 / 4:29 pm

          I do not always say someone is wrong.
          Neither am I forcing you to drop this belief. How on earth could I force someone at the other end of an internet conversation to drop any such thing?
          The mere idea is silly.
          I am merely explaining to you that your interpretation is wrong. And the evidence supports this.
          And although I have asked repeatedly, you have not produced a single piece of biblical text directly attributed to the character Jesus the Nazarene that demonstrates unequivocally that he taught the doctrine of Hell as you understand it and invented by the Catholic Church.
          He was a Jew. There is no doctrine of eternal damnation in Jewish belief.
          I do not know how I can make this any clearer for you?

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        • VictorsCorner September 21, 2017 / 7:58 am

          Of course, you would say that. But it’s a different impression you have given me here.

          I have provided relevant Biblical texts that talk about eternal punishment, including the one directly spoken by Jesus. But you chose to ignore them and you come back accusing me wrongly. You may see Matthew 25:41 to see Jesus talk about the lake of fire.

          Leave the Catholic church out of this, because as I told you earlier, the concept of hell fire, lake of fire or eternal punishment is clearly demonstrated in the Bible for any unbiased mind to see.

          Your point is clear, just that your comment about Jewish belief is not the issue. I’m not living by Jewish belief system. I live by the Bible, as the Word of God, including the New Testament.

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        • Arkenaten September 21, 2017 / 11:15 am

          Yes the Lake of Fire is Gehenna. Situated outside of Jerusalem in the Vale of Gehinnom where they used to burn all their rubbish and supposedly committed human sacrifice.
          Did you never study history while you were becoming a Christian?

          So there we have it. The character Jesus the Nazarene was actually using a known landmark to demonstrate a point.

          No Christian hell anywhere.

          Why would you wish to exclude the Catholic Church in this discussion.
          They invented your religion and they were the ones responsible for creating the Doctrine of Hell.
          In any discussion of this nature their contribution to the development of Christian doctrine is crucial.
          I presume you still abide by the Nicene Creed?
          They invented that too.

          The Word of God?
          Yahweh is your god. The Canaanite god who once had a wife and was adopted by the Israelites.
          He is the god of the Jews. And the Muslims and the Christians.

          Jewish Law has no Hell in its doctrine. It is not taught and Jesus was a Jew. he never taught eternal damnation as described by your Catholic Church devised doctrine.
          Sorry.
          You really need to study this topic a lot more thoroughly rather than simply taking the word of the extreme Christian
          theologians whose point of view you seem to have accepted without due consideration for accuracy.

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        • VictorsCorner September 21, 2017 / 11:53 am

          Your submissions are laughable and mistaken. What you are peddling here are at best half truths.

          Obviously the refuse dump you are talking about is not the lake of fire that Jesus refered to. Vs 41 of Matt 25, says “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.”

          Vs 46 also says ” And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
          I believe this is clear enough.

          We can’t be going back and forth on this. We may as well rest our case. Thank you.

          Like

        • Arkenaten September 21, 2017 / 12:24 pm

          Out of curiosity, how would you determine that these words were actually spoken by the biblical character Jesus of Nazareth?

          Like

        • Arkenaten September 21, 2017 / 12:25 pm

          Oh, and as for the lake of fire not being Gehenna:
          May I inquire as to whether you have read the original Greek text?

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    • VictorsCorner September 19, 2017 / 6:25 pm

      I will try and go through it. But you would not expect me to hold the opinions there higher than what the Bible already said about hell.

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      • Arkenaten September 19, 2017 / 6:27 pm

        The bible says nothing about the Christian version of Hell.
        And remember, the Old Testament was in a different language to the New and when it was translated into English the terms were considered interchangeable in some cases and supposedly meant the same thing. Which they didn’t, of course.

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        • VictorsCorner September 19, 2017 / 6:39 pm

          That’s where I would disagree. There is no greater authority on hell than the Bible itself, as confirmed in the texts you have seen already.

          Like

        • Arkenaten September 19, 2017 / 6:46 pm

          But the language of the bible was never English, surely you understand this?
          The words, Sheol, Hades and Gehenna do not mean Hell as interpreted by Christians.
          Do you actually understand the terms Sheol Hades and Gehenna?
          Are you aware of their etymology?
          Are you aware of the tradition of Sheol in Jewish usage for example?

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        • VictorsCorner September 19, 2017 / 6:54 pm

          Of course I know that English was not the original language of the Bible, and I have read up a bit about the words you mentioned. If what you have issue with is their the so-called interpretation, I’m okay with that. But the concept of eternal punishment for those who reject Jesus Christ (which the Bible clearly records) should not be underplayed because it is inevitable.

          Like

        • Arkenaten September 19, 2017 / 6:56 pm

          No. Jesus never says this.
          I reiterate, he was a Jew.
          Jews did not believe in eternal punishment.
          That is a Christian Church invention.

          Like

        • VictorsCorner September 19, 2017 / 7:04 pm

          You clearly haven’t understood the Bible correctly. Your opinion doesn’t remove the imminent reality of eternal punishment for those who make light of the grace that God offers in Jesus.

          For the avoidance of doubts, it was Jesus who said, “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25.41. Do you notice the everlasting fire destination?

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    • VictorsCorner September 22, 2017 / 7:56 am

      I am still trying to explore this link you sent. However, thank you for recommending Mel Wild’s blog the other time. So far, I like what I have seen on the site, but nothing on hell fire yet. Any specific link you want me to check out?

      In the mean time, I like the testimony he shared about an atheist who came to Christ. I hope you wouldn’t mind reading it? Here is the link to that: https://melwild.wordpress.com/2017/09/17/how-francis-collins-came-to-christ/

      Like

      • Arkenaten September 22, 2017 / 11:27 am

        I think it would be far easier to simply ask him to express his view regarding Hell, with specific reference to your (erroneous) belief that non-believers (such as me) are destined for a life of eternal torture and punishment in a place you know as Hell.

        Drop the comment on any thread. The newest is as good as any.
        He will answer I ‘m sure.

        Like

        • VictorsCorner September 22, 2017 / 3:22 pm

          That wouldn’t be necessary at all. Your claim is baseless….so I couldn’t rely on it as sufficient ground to engage the pastor on issues of hell and eternal punishment.

          From what I have read on his site so far, I believe I have alot in common with him. So there would be opportunities for interaction with him as time goes on. But that’s up to me.

          I later read your comments on his post on Collins that I earlier sent the link to you. As you already know, the pastor doesn’t agree with you at all. I know this because I read his responses to your vituperations.

          For all I care, contrary to the impression you gave me, you do not have any thing in common with that man of God. If I were you I would consider his advise that you should make comments more reasonable.

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        • Arkenaten September 22, 2017 / 3:32 pm

          Of course you have lots in common, you both consider yourselves Christian. However, he flatly disagrees with your version of hell, of this I can guarantee you.
          Also, as he is a professional Christian – he gets paid to preach -one can presume he should know and understand theology considerably better than the average person sitting in the Pews, yes?
          Thus,by extension he will be able to correct your misunderstanding regarding the biblical text and the terms used, and the fact that Jesus the Nazarene did not ever teach anything about eternal damnation and a fiery punishment.

          Of course I have nothing in common with him other than we are male and human. What gave you the slightest impression I was in any way religious?

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        • VictorsCorner September 22, 2017 / 4:52 pm

          I could say he and I are brothers in Christ to the extent that we believe in God and we have accepted the work of grace that Jesus accomplish for us.

          I have shown you proves that Jesus talked about everlasting punishment. But you have chosen to believe otherwise. I would just suggest that you stop peddling false messages around here.

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        • Arkenaten September 22, 2017 / 5:20 pm

          Actually,you have shown nothing of the sort.
          Proof is normally confined to maths.
          You need to learn the correct terminology first of all.
          Then you need to study history and the top scholars in the field of biblical exegeses.

          You would not stick your head in a gas oven just because someone told you to so why do you believe biblical text just because you were likely indoctrinated as a child.
          You are a grown adult.
          As you truly believe your eternal soul depends on getting the right information you need to make sure that what you read is correct, and not simply by faith but also by evidence.

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        • VictorsCorner September 22, 2017 / 5:39 pm

          You know nothing about me. So don’t even start…
          My decision to follow Christ is a personal, conscious step taken as a person who can be held accountable. Indoctrination from childhood does not apply to me as you wrongly suggested.
          And you can’t believe in God except by faith, which obviously you don’t have. (But you can have it actually).

          History is important but it lacks the power to save. As the Bible says, the Gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation. Everything else leads to a dead end.

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        • Arkenaten September 22, 2017 / 5:46 pm

          And yet Thomas supposedly wanted to see the nail holes and Jesus was quite happy to show him and blessed him …. according to the bible that is.

          As you were an adult convert, I presume, may I ask what was the cause for you believing you needed saving?

          Like

        • VictorsCorner September 22, 2017 / 5:50 pm

          If only you would discard your doubts like the Thomas you refered to did…

          Like

        • Arkenaten September 22, 2017 / 5:52 pm

          Maybe I would. Do you have any evidence to support your claims?

          Like

        • VictorsCorner September 22, 2017 / 6:00 pm

          I already addressed your questions.

          Like

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